Re: [Salon] Russian ‘False Flag’ Ukraine Plot Wouldn’t Be Its First



Let me add, charging Russia with plans for a false flag operation, against the US in effect, to predictably give the US and NATO a pretext to launch offensive operations against Russia, is as incredible as when the Germans accused the Poles of attacking the German radio station (I believe it was), for Germany’s pretext to invade Poland. 

On Feb 3, 2022, at 8:05 PM, Todd Pierce via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:

False flag operations are for offensive operations, not defensive operations. And given that Russia has a minuscule military budget compared to ours, and minuscule forces, meaning combined weaponry and human forces, and NATO’s, which Trump was zealously twisting arms to raise it even more before he left office, and in every regard, Russia is far behind us in offensive weaponry, though not nuclear armed missiles for potential retaliation, but advanced enough in genuinely defensive weapons, to include tactical nuclear weapons (they don’t have to go very far, when the “enemy” is racing toward your positions in M-1 tanks), and far behind in every measure of military strength, except for defensive war, I don’t find all the claims being made by NATO’s “cognitive campaigns” credible. 

“I’ve seen this movie before,” in person in 1990-1991 when we had Hill & Knowlton producing pro-war propaganda/lies (and I was told before I had even landed in S.A. with the computer van I was in charge of that it would be staying there, along with the US forces we left in place) to sell the war to the American people; again in 2001 when it was clear we weren’t in Afghanistan only to hunt down al Qaeda, or even to topple the Taliban, but were there to stay, as part of a long term plan to control “Eurasia” as American “strategists" like Brzezinski had long advocated, and the same with Iraq in 2003, as I stood by as a JAG Officer watching that "train wreck in slow motion,” as we deployed there with all our lies, once again, of WMD, tortured Guantanamo prisoners like al Libi connecting Iraq to al Qaeda, etc. I will stop here as the list is too long to go on but has this august group really forgotten all that the US has done to destroy so much of the world over the last 20 years? And then watched as Trump prepared for the next stage of aggression by moving US forces ever closer to the perimeter to both China and Russia, while waging a "clandestine war" with Israel against Iran, according to the NYT. 

Add this all up and it begins looking like a pattern pretty soon, and Russia and China noticed that a long time ago and pulled together because of it, along with India for a while (and maybe again), and South Africa and Brazil, all back in the aughts. And we have never slowed down with our military aggressions since 9/11, and now we’re finally on the verge of destroying ourselves, due to our deference to the most militaristic, radical-right, leaders the world has seen since 1945, both our military leaders, the CIA, and the extreme militarists we have in both political parties, all bent on expanding global hegemony and the US “Pointillist Empire.” And we have the chutzpah to accuse Russia of planning war, when any military tactician/strategist can tell what they have been doing is, in essence, “securing their lines” against attack, to include denying us Sevastopol, which was what our plan clearly was, to have it for ourselves, and to turn the Black Sea into one of our "Great Lakes."

The claims we’ve made for the last decade or more have just been too “inherently incredible” to fall for these lies again. The only responsible position we should be taking now is upholding the Minsk Agreement, so that Russia can’t claim a need to defend ethnic Russians, and to de-escalate, and if we succeed, heave a sigh of relief that we didn’t destroy ourselves and half the world, instead of ratcheting up tensions until there is no going back. And to back off from the claims of the combined pro-war “networks” of the Trumpites, and those Democrats who wish to take advantage of his vast military buildup now.  

But I have no hope of that as the US with a war-fevered population and its leaders who fomented the war fever will continue on its present, unsustainable course, until it comes to what is most likely a cataclysmic end, because we have no leaders left with any sense, or actual morality, and I don’t mean the so-called “constitutional morality” the Right uses to argue against the “real” Constitution. 
 
Pardon typos and grammarship in the above 

On Feb 3, 2022, at 7:08 PM, MICHAEL TELSON <mltelson@aol.com> wrote:

So?  Does that mean the Russians aren’t? 

That’s the issue, it seems to me, not whether the US had also done it.  And whether that was or was not appropriate at the time.  

But this is NOW.

And is it helpful or not to make the point that the Russians might try to do it?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 3, 2022, at 7:22 PM, Todd Pierce via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:

 With all due respect, the U.S. has a pretty distinguished False Flag record as well, and long before 9/11, but especially since that date. In fact, I would shout: We’re # 1!, and let’s not have any false modesty over that, in my opinion. As we move ever closer to the “near competitor war” we’ve been dreaming of, and preparing for, and which Trump/Bannon/Pompeo  was leading us to until it fell to Biden to take our wars to that height, and us across the “finish line” of that goal. With that “triumph” in mind, perhaps someone here would like to pay tribute to those Nazi Doctors who collaborated with the founding of the CIA to bring their tricks into our intelligence system, as Stephen Kinder and Annie Jacobsen and others explained of the founding of the CIA, with the CIA still up to the tricks their “founding fathers” bequeathed to them, from Berlin, to Langley. 

On Feb 3, 2022, at 4:41 PM, Jeff Stein via Salon <salon@listserve.com> wrote:

https://www.spytalk.co/p/russian-false-flag-ukraine-plot-wouldnt?r=2hta&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

<icon_spytalk.gif>

Jeff Stein 
Editor-in-chief, SpyTalk
(202) 697-9812 — desk/Skype
(202) 812-3034  cell/Signal
Twitter: @spytalker










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